"Anyone Else" and Beer

Where the Grøt is... off-topic, non-music related discussions & a lot of fun!

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Postby Fiona » Wed Apr 12, 2006 14:43

DrNordic wrote:Everyone should do what they believe is right and follow their heart and the word of God...


I think it should be: everyone should do what is in the word of God, which they believe is right and lives in their hearts. :wink:

I have no problem with drinking alcohol. Jesus his first miracle in the Bible was changing water in to wine. But you should not get drunk, it makes you vulnerable for evil influences.
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Postby Farlig-K » Wed Apr 12, 2006 15:19

Nobody wrote:....Who's "Anyone Else"?

Brad, stop lurking and log in!!!
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Postby nordicmetalhead » Wed Apr 12, 2006 16:37

Please define "ideal Christian lifestyle".

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Postby Farlig-K » Wed Apr 12, 2006 16:44

i should've rather said "stereotypical"
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Postby nordicmetalhead » Wed Apr 12, 2006 16:48

PerilousBehavior wrote:i should've rather said "stereotypical"


Ah yes, the stereotypical "Western Christian". Young, white, pretty, physically perfect, wears nice happy clothes, listens to nice happy music, views metal/goth/industrial/etc as "satanic" (along with ugly people, freakish people or people with low-income jobs)..

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Postby Farlig-K » Wed Apr 12, 2006 16:55

well, here in SA the stereotypical Christian IS the ugly person with the low-income job... but yes, the freakish people and people listening to rock/metal and extreme versions thereof are, sadly, regarded as satanic and outcasts :(
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Postby Max » Wed Apr 12, 2006 16:56

PerilousBehavior wrote:if someone comes up asking the question: "I thought Christians are supposed to to everything to the Glory of God, so why are you drinking?"... what would your response be? I mean, can you honestly say that you're drinking "to the Glory of God"? what could drinking alcohol possibly do to further His Kingdom?


Is school? Is driving a car? Is drinking cola to the Glory of God? Is drinking milk? Is eating fish to the Glory of God? Do you think with every meal "this is to the Glory of God". If you can do that with your meals, you can do it with beer.

PerilousBehavior wrote:i guess it boils down to portraying the *ideal* Christian lifestyle and not causing another to stumble (as Ansgar stated)... by taking that into consideration, drinking in itself is not a sin, but it's up to us to guide those not yet saved to His Kingdom. and can you really do that by performing actions generally frowned upon by a *traditional* Christian community?


Actually, it isn't frowned upon by a traditional Christian community. Being drunk is frowned up, which I don't, and I think only Americans actually frown upon beer. That makes it rather a cultural aspect than a religious. I drink wine in church, wine usually has more alcohol than beer. So why should I frown upon drinking beer? Jesus drank wine.

And to be honest, I think I can reach out to unsaved people way easier while holding a beer than while holding a glass of milk in a bar. Do you know how retarded it looks to hold a glass of milk in a bar? :P

and Phil has a good point. Metal is also frowned upon.
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Postby Will » Wed Apr 12, 2006 16:59

The Netherlands rocks :)
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Postby Ansgar » Wed Apr 12, 2006 17:09

PerilousBehavior wrote:if someone comes up asking the question: "I thought Christians are supposed to to everything to the Glory of God, so why are you drinking?"... what would your response be? I mean, can you honestly say that you're drinking "to the Glory of God"? what could drinking alcohol possibly do to further His Kingdom?

i guess it boils down to portraying the *ideal* Christian lifestyle and not causing another to stumble (as Ansgar stated)... by taking that into consideration, drinking in itself is not a sin, but it's up to us to guide those not yet saved to His Kingdom. and can you really do that by performing actions generally frowned upon by a *traditional* Christian community?


Woah woah woah. dont associate my name with any statement that contains the phrase "ideal Christian lifestyle." even if you meant to say "stereotypical" they are both wrong and terrible things and concepts. stereotypes and idealistic views of Christianity completely miss the point of Christianity itself. Christianity is Christ centered and within and INDIVIDUAL person. THus, there is no such thing as the ideal or stereotypical Xian lifestyle. I believe that such a lifestyle could be referred to as the "fundamentalist" Xian lifestyle, but that is not a good thing. Drinking is only frowned upon by those seperatists who choose to remain ignorant and oblivious to the actual message of the Bible. I challenge what is "generally frowned upon" because people establish rules that do not need to be there. Seperatism and fundamentalism are the cancer of Christianity. Second, yes, i can say that I drink alcohol to the glory of God in the same way that I eat a hamburger, take a shower, drive my car and come on this message board to the glory of God. If someone asked me that question, I would first enlighten them what it means to "glorify God" being that I do it with the awareness and thanksgiving that all i have is a gift from Him.
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Postby Ansgar » Wed Apr 12, 2006 17:10

PerilousBehavior wrote:if someone comes up asking the question: "I thought Christians are supposed to to everything to the Glory of God, so why are you drinking?"... what would your response be? I mean, can you honestly say that you're drinking "to the Glory of God"? what could drinking alcohol possibly do to further His Kingdom?

i guess it boils down to portraying the *ideal* Christian lifestyle and not causing another to stumble (as Ansgar stated)... by taking that into consideration, drinking in itself is not a sin, but it's up to us to guide those not yet saved to His Kingdom. and can you really do that by performing actions generally frowned upon by a *traditional* Christian community?


BTW, in "traditional" Judaism, Jesus was frowned upon. Traditional is not always a good thing.
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Postby Farlig-K » Wed Apr 12, 2006 17:13

JesusMetal wrote:
PerilousBehavior wrote:if someone comes up asking the question: "I thought Christians are supposed to to everything to the Glory of God, so why are you drinking?"... what would your response be? I mean, can you honestly say that you're drinking "to the Glory of God"? what could drinking alcohol possibly do to further His Kingdom?


Is school? Is driving a car? Is drinking cola to the Glory of God? Is drinking milk? Is eating fish to the Glory of God? Do you think with every meal "this is to the Glory of God". If you can do that with your meals, you can do it with beer.

PerilousBehavior wrote:i guess it boils down to portraying the *ideal* Christian lifestyle and not causing another to stumble (as Ansgar stated)... by taking that into consideration, drinking in itself is not a sin, but it's up to us to guide those not yet saved to His Kingdom. and can you really do that by performing actions generally frowned upon by a *traditional* Christian community?


Actually, it isn't frowned upon by a traditional Christian community. Being drunk is frowned up, which I don't, and I think only Americans actually frown upon beer. That makes it rather a cultural aspect than a religious. I drink wine in church, wine usually has more alcohol than beer. So why should I frown upon drinking beer? Jesus drank wine.

And to be honest, I think I can reach out to unsaved people way easier while holding a beer than while holding a glass of milk in a bar. Do you know how retarded it looks to hold a glass of milk in a bar? :P

and Phil has a good point. Metal is also frowned upon.

1) to be honest, i've never held (or seen anyone else hold) a glass of milk in a bar. i haven't been in a bar since i became saved... and why portray an image of drinking to a non-Christian? if he sees you drinking (not necessarily getting drunk), he might think later on - "ok, i saw Max drinking beer the other night, so it's ok if i drink". he may not know where the limit is to stop, and blunder into drunkenness. remember - you're a beacon of light and should shine LIGHT unto the world, not darkness...

2) if it isn't frowned upon by traditional communities, then why are we debating/fighting about this? down here traditional Christianity forbids the intake of alcohol altogether...

3) and i still stick to my view that the doubting whether or not something is wrong is the sin, not necessarily the act itself. i just can't remember where i read it in the Bible - somewhere in the NT.

i'm not telling you to not drink beer - i'm just stating my opinion.
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Postby Ansgar » Wed Apr 12, 2006 17:16

in regards to point number 3, there is no such statement anywhere in the NT, nor the bible in its entirety. one is actually to "test the spirits" to see if they are from God. Job asks some mighty tough and doubting questions to God, yet God says Job "never spoke wrongly."
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Postby Max » Wed Apr 12, 2006 17:21

PerilousBehavior wrote:1) to be honest, i've never held (or seen anyone else hold) a glass of milk in a bar. i haven't been in a bar since i became saved... and why portray an image of drinking to a non-Christian? if he sees you drinking (not necessarily getting drunk), he might think later on - "ok, i saw Max drinking beer the other night, so it's ok if i drink". he may not know where the limit is to stop, and blunder into drunkenness. remember - you're a beacon of light and should shine LIGHT unto the world, not darkness...


Well, maybe we as christians shouldn't avoid bars, did Jesus avoid sinners?
And I've never heard anyone say anything like that, you know what I always hear from non-christians? "Hey, I thought christians weren't allowed to drink beer". And you just see them thinking "I thought christianity was all about being bored, not being allowed to do anything and not allowed to have fun". By drinking beer I actually show a christian can have fun. I shine the light in showing that christianity isn't about laws and what you are all supposed to not do, it's about what I can do, it's about freedom.

PerilousBehavior wrote:2) if it isn't frowned upon by traditional communities, then why are we debating/fighting about this? down here traditional Christianity forbids the intake of alcohol altogether...


You started the topic, not me. Like I said, it's cultural, not religious. I hardly ever heard a dutch/belgian/french/german/english/whatever christian say you're not allowed to. Only americans. And this is for the first time I hear a south american.

PerilousBehavior wrote:3) and i still stick to my view that the doubting whether or not something is wrong is the sin, not necessarily the act itself. i just can't remember where i read it in the Bible - somewhere in the NT.


It is in the Bible that you should not do things you doubt of. But I think this should be doubt based on the Bible. While most doubt is based on the criticism you get from the "traditional christians". Have you never doubted listening metal? Does that make it a sin?

PerilousBehavior wrote:i'm not telling you to not drink beer - i'm just stating my opinion.


I know, and I respect that. That's why this is a discussion and not a fight :)
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Postby Farlig-K » Wed Apr 12, 2006 17:21

Ansgar wrote:
PerilousBehavior wrote:if someone comes up asking the question: "I thought Christians are supposed to to everything to the Glory of God, so why are you drinking?"... what would your response be? I mean, can you honestly say that you're drinking "to the Glory of God"? what could drinking alcohol possibly do to further His Kingdom?

i guess it boils down to portraying the *ideal* Christian lifestyle and not causing another to stumble (as Ansgar stated)... by taking that into consideration, drinking in itself is not a sin, but it's up to us to guide those not yet saved to His Kingdom. and can you really do that by performing actions generally frowned upon by a *traditional* Christian community?


Woah woah woah. dont associate my name with any statement that contains the phrase "ideal Christian lifestyle." even if you meant to say "stereotypical" they are both wrong and terrible things and concepts. stereotypes and idealistic views of Christianity completely miss the point of Christianity itself. Christianity is Christ centered and within and INDIVIDUAL person. THus, there is no such thing as the ideal or stereotypical Xian lifestyle. I believe that such a lifestyle could be referred to as the "fundamentalist" Xian lifestyle, but that is not a good thing. Drinking is only frowned upon by those seperatists who choose to remain ignorant and oblivious to the actual message of the Bible. I challenge what is "generally frowned upon" because people establish rules that do not need to be there. Seperatism and fundamentalism are the cancer of Christianity. Second, yes, i can say that I drink alcohol to the glory of God in the same way that I eat a hamburger, take a shower, drive my car and come on this message board to the glory of God. If someone asked me that question, I would first enlighten them what it means to "glorify God" being that I do it with the awareness and thanksgiving that all i have is a gift from Him.

i'm not accusing you of falling into or even being in any way associated with a traditional Christian lifestyle. i'm talking about OTHERS being "traditional" in that sense. if you perform an action that they do not consend to, it may cause them to stumble in their walk with Christ - either by doing it just because you do it (and thereby they don't do it out of faith - which is sin, i.e. the DOUBT is the sin), or by accusing you of not being a "true Christian" or something similar.

please, don't get me wrong - i'm not accusing ANYONE of being traditional or something...
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Postby nordicmetalhead » Wed Apr 12, 2006 17:23

Ansgar wrote:
PerilousBehavior wrote:if someone comes up asking the question: "I thought Christians are supposed to to everything to the Glory of God, so why are you drinking?"... what would your response be? I mean, can you honestly say that you're drinking "to the Glory of God"? what could drinking alcohol possibly do to further His Kingdom?

i guess it boils down to portraying the *ideal* Christian lifestyle and not causing another to stumble (as Ansgar stated)... by taking that into consideration, drinking in itself is not a sin, but it's up to us to guide those not yet saved to His Kingdom. and can you really do that by performing actions generally frowned upon by a *traditional* Christian community?


BTW, in "traditional" Judaism, Jesus was frowned upon. Traditional is not always a good thing.


But not based as much on appearances as actions. Jesus hung out with "those people", he did all of the above on a Sabbath and he *GASP* forgave SINS!

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