Should I stop drinking?

Where the Grøt is... off-topic, non-music related discussions & a lot of fun!

Moderators: DrNordic, Dr Apocalypse, XeNoMoRpH, Ghâshûl

Postby G » Mon Mar 27, 2006 18:51

I've been thinking about this for a while aswell. Check out Romans chapter 14.
G
 

Postby jaakoppi » Mon Mar 27, 2006 18:55

G wrote:I've been thinking about this for a while aswell. Check out Romans chapter 14.

I was thinking about two possible responses:

jaakoppi wrote:Gee, I wish I would have ever read the bible! These things are so simple! I wonder why nobody ever reads the bible, because then this controversy wouldn't obviously exist.

or
jaakoppi wrote:I can't check it out yet, Brad-k is only on Matthew chapter 10. Hafta wait for a few years.

I am disabled by fear determining which course to take...
Live long, and prosper
User avatar
jaakoppi
Metal Hero
 
Posts: 4469
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:53
Location: The planet Vulcan
Title: Nonexistant

Postby nordicmetalhead » Mon Mar 27, 2006 19:05

Iskall vinter wrote:
nordicmetalhead wrote:
Iskall vinter wrote:My personal opinion:

Drinking is NOT sinning. The bible never states that, and there arequite a few occasions where Christ himself drinks wine. Getting drunk however... I do not think that's a sin either. At least I don't think getting drunk itself is a sin :P

"Why? Paul is pretty darn clear on that point if you ask me!" Some people might argue. The reason I don't trhink getting drunk is a sin is because of the fact that Christ himself turns water into wine during a wedding when the guests are already drunk. Ok, so now we have a bit of contradiction here. First Jesus supplies drunk guests with wine, and then his apostles write that getting drunk is a a sin, right?
Wrong. What I think Paul meant was that getting drunk in a way that ruins your chances of witnessing, you become addicted to it, it hurts you or other people, or if it makes you a bad example for other people is a sin. Getting a little merry over a beer or two with your close friends is not a sin.

Am I contradicting myself here or are my arguments flawed? Perhaps. I won't debate anyone here though, i just felt like stating my opinion.


I can only disagree with this because if Jesus turned water to wine solely for the purpose of getting people drunk then God is both inconsistent and cruel and thus not God.

However, the idea that the guests may have already been drunk and that He did that as requested by his mother would perhaps be also allowable inasmuch as some traditions say that the guests weren't actually drunk as we understand drunk today, but really, really happy people, which is the state of being "buzzed" which is medically proven to not always be the same as "drunk".

Otherwise, what you're saying then would contradict Scriptural warnings against being drunk in the first place and causing Scripture to contradict itself.

Phil


I don't quite understand the second part... Could you explain? :)


I can't explain it in Swedish, the concept of "buzzed" is beyond my knowledge beyond American English, sorry :(

Phil
[URL=http://valsignalandet.com]Image

Välsignalandet: Where the Freaks Gather
[/URL]
User avatar
nordicmetalhead
Metal Overlord
 
Posts: 15481
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:31
Location: Someplace cold, dark and has nice Asian restaurants!
Title: Return Of The Black Swede

Postby Brad-K » Mon Mar 27, 2006 20:01

LordCharles wrote:
Brad-K wrote:What's all this "kingdom" stuff? You live in San Diego. I was down there a few months ago, shooting a drag race, staying in a Motel, and eating at an IHOP. It wasn't exactly Middle Earth. You trying to escape reality or something? You some kind of nutso?

Face reality, DUDE.


Brad,

What are you talking about? Why do you feel this reply to my post was neccessary?

First off, when I refer to "My Kingdom", I am talking about my household, everything under my roof. That is indeed "My Kingdom". I am a father of three children, I have worked very hard to keep a roof over our heads and all that. So I feel more than justified calling my household my kindom.

Second, I have a deep afinity for another age with older values and codes of honor. If I sometimes enjoy speaking in terms and phrases associated with this, why do you feel you have to say something derogatory about it?

Third, your reply has no content that is associated with the topic of this thread in any way shape or form.

Forth, I owe you no explanation whatsoever. I speak as I wish at my liesure. I reply to you out of courtesy.

My advice to you is to stay on topic a little better and be careful of un-provoked aggressive activity against my kingdom. If you don't like the way I talk, don't read it. But making valueless remarks about it is a waste of your time, I won't be stopping on your account.

Why not lighten up a bit lad? Life is too short to go walking around with a chip on your shoulder eh? Tis best to be allies m'lord, for mine allies enjoy the hospitality of mine fire and mine ale.

But the tainted kingdoms of mine enemies shall stain the snow.

I face reality every day. There is nothing wrong at all with a little break from it every once in a while. It helps keep us sane. Try it sometime, it will help you stay less pissy.

Peace is the way brother.

-Charles




Dude, I was just messin' with ya! :wink:
"...Schnappster, half a joint o' ragweed...that's decent...now all we gotta do is find us some chicks..."
User avatar
Brad-K
Metal Deity
 
Posts: 30829
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 18:16
Location: Nigh The Tomb of Dio...Long Live The King!
Title: Any Lengsel News Yet?

Postby Guest » Mon Mar 27, 2006 20:20

For the sake of saving space, I won't re-quote what phil wrote, but from what I have come to understand, he is right.

What I've heard from several sources, is that they drank wine, because the water was so contaminated, it would make you sick if you drank it. If you drank wine, you were ok. I also heard that they would mostly mix wine in with the water, which would make the water drinkable. This meant that they would have a harder time getting drunk with watered-down wine.

And, as far as memory serves me, I did not read anything about Jesus drinking the wine himself, only creating more. I have heard that Jesus, at the Last Supper, swore the Nazarite vow, of not taking alcohol, or cutting his hair, as a sign of holyness. The Nazarites were a group which did these things. There is speculation that Jesus was a member of this group during his enire ministry, which would imply that in fact he did not take any alcohol.
Guest
 

Postby Brad-K » Mon Mar 27, 2006 20:22

That was me (stupid computers...I was logged on).^
"...Schnappster, half a joint o' ragweed...that's decent...now all we gotta do is find us some chicks..."
User avatar
Brad-K
Metal Deity
 
Posts: 30829
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 18:16
Location: Nigh The Tomb of Dio...Long Live The King!
Title: Any Lengsel News Yet?

Postby Herrens Gåfva » Mon Mar 27, 2006 21:30

Ghâshûl wrote:
Natanael wrote:It's not what goes into a man that makes him sinful, it what's goes out...

Read Mark 7:14-23
Sure, it's about food, but it can be aplied on anything...


So rotten meat is sinful?


Is having problems with your stomach a sin?
I am going to take over ze world...
User avatar
Herrens Gåfva
Metal Destructor
 
Posts: 23334
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 16:03
Location: The Starship: Testicular
Title: World Dominator

Postby Iskall Vinter » Mon Mar 27, 2006 21:35

nordicmetalhead wrote:
Iskall vinter wrote:
nordicmetalhead wrote:
Iskall vinter wrote:My personal opinion:

Drinking is NOT sinning. The bible never states that, and there arequite a few occasions where Christ himself drinks wine. Getting drunk however... I do not think that's a sin either. At least I don't think getting drunk itself is a sin :P

"Why? Paul is pretty darn clear on that point if you ask me!" Some people might argue. The reason I don't trhink getting drunk is a sin is because of the fact that Christ himself turns water into wine during a wedding when the guests are already drunk. Ok, so now we have a bit of contradiction here. First Jesus supplies drunk guests with wine, and then his apostles write that getting drunk is a a sin, right?
Wrong. What I think Paul meant was that getting drunk in a way that ruins your chances of witnessing, you become addicted to it, it hurts you or other people, or if it makes you a bad example for other people is a sin. Getting a little merry over a beer or two with your close friends is not a sin.

Am I contradicting myself here or are my arguments flawed? Perhaps. I won't debate anyone here though, i just felt like stating my opinion.


I can only disagree with this because if Jesus turned water to wine solely for the purpose of getting people drunk then God is both inconsistent and cruel and thus not God.

However, the idea that the guests may have already been drunk and that He did that as requested by his mother would perhaps be also allowable inasmuch as some traditions say that the guests weren't actually drunk as we understand drunk today, but really, really happy people, which is the state of being "buzzed" which is medically proven to not always be the same as "drunk".

Otherwise, what you're saying then would contradict Scriptural warnings against being drunk in the first place and causing Scripture to contradict itself.

Phil


I don't quite understand the second part... Could you explain? :)


I can't explain it in Swedish, the concept of "buzzed" is beyond my knowledge beyond American English, sorry :(

Phil


Okily dokily. So where do you draw the line between regular drinking and getting drunk? Because I find it hard to call a certain percentage amount of ethanol in your blood sinning, while 1/1000% less is not sinnging...



ehhh sorry for being confusing heh
Det är bra fino fino på Svinpäls casino.
Det är nåt att ha!
Så bjud upp till dans med Svinpäls hipp hurra!
User avatar
Iskall Vinter
Metal Myth
 
Posts: 11167
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 16:36
Location: Sheol
Title: Isglass

Postby Jeremy » Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:12

Wow, I don't have time to read the entire thread, so I'll toss in my two cents and hope it hasn't been said too much. All things in moderation. I don't drink, but I see nothing wrong with some beer or wine or liquor if you dig the taste. Inebriation is another story, though. When you're drunk, you've put yourself in a situation of terribly compromised judgement and you're really likely to make bad decisions.

\m/
"Though your ship be sturdy, no mercy has the sea." -- Genesis
User avatar
Jeremy
Metal Champion
 
Posts: 9179
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:18
Location: Winchester, VA, USA
Title: Death Metal Dad

Postby Emissary » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:56

jaakoppi wrote:
G wrote:I've been thinking about this for a while aswell. Check out Romans chapter 14.

I was thinking about two possible responses:

jaakoppi wrote:Gee, I wish I would have ever read the bible! These things are so simple! I wonder why nobody ever reads the bible, because then this controversy wouldn't obviously exist.

or
jaakoppi wrote:I can't check it out yet, Brad-k is only on Matthew chapter 10. Hafta wait for a few years.

I am disabled by fear determining which course to take...

Hehe...I love your sense of ""humour"", amigo mio :D
Try saying the words "eye", "laws", "dug" and "aim" quickly in sequence...
User avatar
Emissary
Metal Champion
 
Posts: 6559
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 13:01
Location: Finland
Title: Poser Composer

Postby Will » Tue Mar 28, 2006 17:48

The Jesus-Freak wrote:
Will wrote:
Skogtroll. wrote:
Will wrote:

......... like KBAC !!!!!! :wink:


you mean KVAS? :roll:


Yes, I am "spelling" it in Russian :)


What does it means though..? :?



Somebody needs to visit Russia and find out!!!! :)

Skogtroll, do you care to explain?
Preparing to leave for the Grey Havens
Will
Metal Hero
 
Posts: 1613
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 23:26
Location: Canada
Title: Will of the Ancients

Postby Iskall Vinter » Tue Mar 28, 2006 17:50

Emissary wrote:
jaakoppi wrote:
G wrote:I've been thinking about this for a while aswell. Check out Romans chapter 14.

I was thinking about two possible responses:

jaakoppi wrote:Gee, I wish I would have ever read the bible! These things are so simple! I wonder why nobody ever reads the bible, because then this controversy wouldn't obviously exist.

or
jaakoppi wrote:I can't check it out yet, Brad-k is only on Matthew chapter 10. Hafta wait for a few years.

I am disabled by fear determining which course to take...

Hehe...I love your sense of ""humour"", amigo mio :D


as I said before. Jaakoppi's dry remarks is one of the main reasons visiting these boards
Det är bra fino fino på Svinpäls casino.
Det är nåt att ha!
Så bjud upp till dans med Svinpäls hipp hurra!
User avatar
Iskall Vinter
Metal Myth
 
Posts: 11167
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 16:36
Location: Sheol
Title: Isglass

Postby Iskall Vinter » Tue Mar 28, 2006 17:58

nordicmetalhead wrote:Otherwise, what you're saying then would contradict Scriptural warnings against being drunk in the first place and causing Scripture to contradict itself.

Phil


Maybe a little late, but the Bible DO contradict itself on quite a few places... Not just on the drinking issue (if it really is a contradiction)
Det är bra fino fino på Svinpäls casino.
Det är nåt att ha!
Så bjud upp till dans med Svinpäls hipp hurra!
User avatar
Iskall Vinter
Metal Myth
 
Posts: 11167
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 16:36
Location: Sheol
Title: Isglass

Postby Herrens Gåfva » Tue Mar 28, 2006 22:34

Show me places where it contradict itself...





And please read from the original text. :roll:
I am going to take over ze world...
User avatar
Herrens Gåfva
Metal Destructor
 
Posts: 23334
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 16:03
Location: The Starship: Testicular
Title: World Dominator

Postby Farlig-K » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:44

i've finally found a valid reply... somewhere in James (i think chapter 3) it states that doubting is the sin. when you doubt any situation/thing, it's not from faith, and anything that is not out of faith, is sin.

so, the moral of the story is that if you're in doubt about drinking alcohol, then don't do it, coz it's gonna be a sin. if you really believe it's okay to drink a glass of wine or a beer, then go ahead! but don't OVER-indulge yourself...
G O ( O ) D
--------------------------
\\\GOD IS GOOD///
User avatar
Farlig-K
Metal Champion
 
Posts: 9627
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:55
Location: Midrand
Title: Chief of the Ancients

PreviousNext

Return to Yeah Yeah Yeah

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron